[Evenstar]

That sounds great! Any recommendations? I love books like that too!

Lol, that's putting me on the spot isn't it.

The one that springs to mind first is: Nadia Knows Best by Jill Mansell. It's chick-lit/romantic comedy

She's trapped in a snowstorm for a night with mr. yummy, but determined to be good. And her boyfriend... well, I think I explained the plot pretty much in my last post, LOL

 

[dianapersaud]

Everything Rosalind said. All genres come with reader expectation. Write something against expectation and suffer the lack of sales consequences.

Romance readers want a HEA/HFN and no cheating.
Mystery readers want a crime to be solved by the end of the book.
Space opera readers don't want to read a book set in 2017 Paducah, Kentucky.

Of course, everyone is free to write whatever they want. But if you go against genre expectation, then don't cry when your sales are non-existent.

So very true.

A few years ago, there was a post by a gentleman in his 70s who wrote "romance" and was wondering why he had so many one stars and his books didn't sell. I explained that he had written a Love Story, not a Romance, since the hero died in the book (I read that info in the one star review).

He still writes his books, puts them in "Romance" and gives his books away. Sales are dismal. He just wants his books to be read and thinks that freebie downloads are read 100%.

His business, his decision.

 

[crebel]

Lol, that's putting me on the spot isn't it.

The one that springs to mind first is: Nadia Knows Best by Jill Mansell. It's chick-lit/romantic comedy

She's trapped in a snowstorm for a night with mr. yummy, but determined to be good. And her boyfriend... well, I think I explained the plot pretty much in my last post, LOL

And from the book page:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #340,565 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#252 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Literary Fiction
#472 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Women's Fiction > Sisters
#850 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Literary Fiction > British & Irish

Thanks, Evenstar. Doesn't this make the point many have been trying to get across? The book isn't marketed as "Romance". Overall most genre Romance readers agree that cheating is a no-no/turnoff. That's all. The OP asked and has been answered for the broad market. Where they decide to go from there is strictly up to them and whatever they hope to achieve.

 

[Dpock]

We've pretty much murdered the topic and stomped on its grave... Anyway, the message is clear.

So I chuckled this morning (not really) when I saw "Cheater's Regret" sitting at #47 (storewide) in Romance, the second in a series ("Cheater" being the first, sitting at #115).

 

[Jana DeLeon]

We've pretty much murdered the topic and stomped on its grave... Anyway, the message is clear.

So I chuckled this morning (not really) when I saw "Cheater's Regret" sitting at #47 (storewide) in Romance, the second in a series ("Cheater" being the first, sitting at #115).

And when someone's name is Rachel Van Dyken or Stephen King or GRRM then they can probably get a grocery list into the top 100 because they have that much popularity and talent. But hey, if new writers want to go ahead and try it, no one is stopping them.

 

[Evenstar]

And from the book page:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #340,565 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#252 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Literary Fiction
#472 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Women's Fiction > Sisters
#850 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Literary Fiction > British & Irish

Thanks, Evenstar. Doesn't this make the point many have been trying to get across? The book isn't marketed as "Romance". Overall most genre Romance readers agree that cheating is a no-no/turnoff. That's all. The OP asked and has been answered for the broad market. Where they decide to go from there is strictly up to them and whatever they hope to achieve.

I'm quite frankly confused by those categories. It's none of those things. I'm going to guess it is because there isn't a chick-lit category.

Only the ex is a cheater. The main characters are pure as the driven snow morally. It's definitely a romance. And yes, I completely agree that cheating is generally a no-no.

We've pretty much murdered the topic and stomped on its grave... Anyway, the message is clear.

So I chuckled this morning (not really) when I saw "Cheater's Regret" sitting at #47 (storewide) in Romance, the second in a series ("Cheater" being the first, sitting at #115).

I don't think we've murdered the topic at all. I'm finding this debate really interesting. Especially about how different genre expectations and how perhaps in sub-genres of romance there is room for it.

I will add though, that I know many successful marriages where things went bad at one point and trust was rebuilt and it was put back together stronger than ever.

 

[Usedtoposthere]

We've pretty much murdered the topic and stomped on its grave... Anyway, the message is clear.

So I chuckled this morning (not really) when I saw "Cheater's Regret" sitting at #47 (storewide) in Romance, the second in a series ("Cheater" being the first, sitting at #115).

Read the reviews. The author says and reviewers agree that the series isn't really about cheating and you see no cheating in the books. That particular book is about the hero having been seen by the heroine KISSING somebody else at a party and her assuming he was cheating.

Which he wasn't.

Write what you want. Bend or break the genre. You are free to do so. Maybe it'll be a breakout hit.

 

[Dpock]

I don't think we've murdered the topic at all. I'm finding this debate really interesting. Especially about how different genre expectations and how perhaps in sub-genres of romance there is room for it.

I will add though, that I know many successful marriages where things went bad at one point and trust was rebuilt and it was put back together stronger than ever.

In general romance, it's pretty clear cheating heroines or heroes will displease a large portion of that audience. In the subgenres maybe not so much, but which subgenres? I think, but do not know for sure, that New Adult & College audiences might not be so ruffled. Many of those titles are pretty out there content-wise.

It's not a topic I engage in writing, but my interest was drawn to the thread when the particulars of what constitutes "cheating" started getting batted around. Someone here or on another thread suggested a languorous kiss between the heroine and a third-party would be a turn-off to readers. I don't think I've attended a New Years Eve party where some of that didn't occur between non-couples. It made me wonder, how much of the "real world" do we have to leave behind?

I don't care either way, but it's good to know before the writing begins.

This morning, I skimmed through a novel listed on the first page of Top 100 romance where the heroine marries two princes (they're twins). To me, that's slightly more "out there" than an unchaste kiss from a tipsy heroine. It wasn't penned by Steven King either. This is proof of nothing in the broader scheme.

As has now been proclaimed by many, romance is a big genre with lots of niches and varying degrees of edginess. Break a fundamental rule (no cheating, HEA) and proceed at your own risk.

 

[Usedtoposthere]

I've been married 31 years. I've never kissed another man party or no. That may be some people's real world. It isn't mine or the people I know, and I've lived in Berkeley CA for 15 years and run in fairly liberal circles. I guess if that is your real life it is. I also don't know any marriages that have withstood cheating in any real sense (once you break that trust). But whatever. I clearly don't have x ray vision into everybody's life.

The book about the two princes is ménage. For heaven's sake. That's been explained at least three times in this thread. If you don't get the genre you don't I guess.

 

[Dpock]

Bend or break the genre. You are free to do so. Maybe it'll be a breakout hit.

No thanks. I don't write about cheating and don't care to. I've now said that several times. My only intent on this board is to learn, not teach. When I state my understanding it's so others can correct my misfires.

I put up the post you reference because I thought it was ironic. It wasn't posted as evidence of anything.

 

[Usedtoposthere]

No thanks. I don't write about cheating and don't care to. I've now said that several times. My only intent on this board is to learn, not teach. When I state my understanding it's so others can correct my misfires.

I put up the post you reference because I thought it was ironic. It wasn't posted as evidence of anything.

But it isn't ironic. It's the opposite. It's not about a hero or heroine who cheat. That's just a clicky title and a hook. It works BECAUSE of most people's disgust with cheating. That's what makes the title and premise grabby.

By the way somebody who reads NA told me this am that nope, no cheating there. Lots in chick lit and women's fiction though I know. Especially the British ones. I know Evenstar is British. Perhaps cheating isn't such a deal breaker there? I know it traditionally hasn't been in France. If you want to write that kind of storyline, you should probably write to one of those audiences if you want success.

All "you"s intended as general not personal you.

 

[Guest]

If they want it to sell a ton, they should probably listen, but it's their choice. I am not the Romance Police. Write what you want.

Agreed. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

 

[Dpock]

I've been married 31 years. I've never kissed another man party or no. That may be some people's real world. It isn't mine or the people I know, and I've lived in Berkeley CA for 15 years and run in fairly liberal circles. I guess if that is your real life it is.

Guilty. I've witnessed some pretty lascivious couples behaviors over the years, especially at New Year Eve parties. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess we moved through different circles in our lives.

But it isn't ironic. It's the opposite. It's not about a hero or heroine who cheat. That's just a clicky title and a hook. It works BECAUSE of most people's disgust with cheating. That's what makes the title and premise grabby.

That's a very interesting and illuminating take. Based on what I've read here, "cheating" in a title should be kryptonite to romance readers, but I see your point. For exactly the reasons you mention, it isn't. It's click bait.

I checked to see if anyone had chosen No Happy Ending for a romance title. Nope. But it's pretty popular in Crime/Mystery/Thriller. I'm seriously wondering if it could work.

 

[BeMyBookBaby]

Lol, that's putting me on the spot isn't it.

The one that springs to mind first is: Nadia Knows Best by Jill Mansell. It's chick-lit/romantic comedy

She's trapped in a snowstorm for a night with mr. yummy, but determined to be good. And her boyfriend... well, I think I explained the plot pretty much in my last post, LOL

Any I've already downloaded. Just the light I need after a day of study. Thanks, Evenstar.

 

[unkownwriter]

The best statement I have ever heard about tropes is that it's like being in a herd of cows. If most of the cows are black and white, it's okay if your cow is brown. Because color notwithstanding, it's still a cow.

But if your cow is actually a giraffe, it will not fit in with the herd, no matter what. It can't. It's a giraffe, and the herd is made up of cows. So if you want to push genre tropes be the brown cow, and stand out in the herd of black and whites. But don't be surprised when the giraffe is pushed to the edges of the herd.

Love this so much. This is what we've been trying to say for six pages now.

I'm a believer in writing what you want, or as I think of it, writing the story the way it needs to be written. Selling something is often a different thing, though. Readers want what they want, and the best way to sell is to find the median where writing what we want and giving the reader what he/she wants meet.

Here's an example of a book/story I read that didn't quite get to that median. It was a zompoc tale, and people were struggling mightily to survive. Many, many died, but one family made it out and found a refuge in the mountains. Oh, yeah, some of humanity will survive. Yay! Except, no. They all died, the zombies ruled the world. Different, right? Quite a twist, eh? Yeah. I hated it. Because the writer broke the covenant with the reader that someone would manage to win against all odds, much like in a romance where the couple overcomes all and ends up together.

 

[C. Gold]

I have read over a thousand romances - contemporary, regency, paranormal, fantasy, and even a smattering of gay and ménage and none of them had cheating except for one book. This was after fourteen books in the series when the author decided a mated guy got bored with his woman and was going to cheat on her after begging the powers that be for her life not one year ago in story time. I binge read that series and once that hot potato got dropped, I was done. Game over. Felt very livid. I'll let someone else buy the next book and tell me if he really cheats before I bother reading it.

Cheating is one of the most devastating things you can possibly do to someone. It completely erodes that person's self esteem and trust. Also, the men I've seen cheat had no remorse and were sorry they got caught, not that they cheated. And one in particular didn't know why it was such a big deal since he said 'sorry'. Like that should be enough. To overcome this and go back to a loving, trusting relationship is hard and trying to make it work in a short romance story isn't going to feel believable to anyone who knows or has experienced a cheater.

In many of those romances the character, typically the guy, tries to get the 'other' out of their head and goes to a bar for a pickup. They may kiss and fondle but they keep thinking about their 'one' until they realize they can't be with anyone else. Even if it was just supposed to be a one night stand, there was something different about that encounter which makes the person balk at doing it again with a random stranger. That is the fantasy - that once you meet 'the one' you are hooked no matter how hard you fight it.