[Stan123]

Unfortunately, no software will be able to keep your choice of fonts for your Kindle ebook. Kindle e-readers have fonts of their own already installed, and whatever font you use will be converted to one of its own fonts. There's no way around it. The only medium allowing you full control of the font you choose is the print version.

With print books, you have absolute freedom to use whatever fonts you fancy, provided they're either labeled "free for commercial use" or if you purchase a license specifically for desktop publishing which normally allows commercial use for print books. And don't forget to embed them, of course, although KDP does a pretty good job embedding fonts for you (but only for paperbacks and hardcovers, never for ebooks).

Answering your question, I never use Times New Roman. I much prefer Bookman Old Style because it's so much easier on the eye, probably the most readable font around, and it's only $39.90. But then again, it's only for print books... no font choice for Kindle ebooks...

I do not want to use my own fonts for creating ebooks per se. I just do not want to get into trouble designing an ebook and publishing it with the fonts they gave me. Especially since I am designing the ebook (with Kindle Create) using Amazon software, yet NOT publishing it at Amazon. The Times New Roman was just an example to show that a font so typically used, is actually licensed. Not that I am using it myself commercially.

 

[Stan123]

I use Calisto MT, which I bought a licence for. Or Minion Pro, which I can use since I own/licence Adobe software which grants me the right to use their fonts commercially. If you don't own/licence any Adobe software, you need to buy the font via Fontspring, IIRC.

As far as Windows bundled fonts go, you can use them commercially--if you have a Pro version of Windows. If you have Student or Home, you aren't legally free to use those fonts commercially.

Stay away from dodgy font sites, and you'll be safe as far as free fonts go.

Thank you. This is a very useful post. Fortunately I own some Adobe software, which will make some things easier for me regarding fonts I used.

Do you know how I should handle things regarding the software I am using to create my ebook? The Amazon software only has 3 fonts in them.
(I will not be distributing books with Amazon...so I am guessing my clients will not be using Kindle devices which has these same fonts installed?)

 

[Stan123]

Bookerly is not free for personal and commercial use. It is a proprietary typeface. You can download it from Amazon along with the license, which I'm sure no one who is flouting it as free has read because if they did they would realize it's not licensed for commercial or personal purposes, In fact, it's not even a license. It's an internal document explaining how Amazon owns the copyright and how and when the two proprietary typefaces should be used.

Iconography and Typography

developer.amazon.com

Just because something can be downloaded doesn't mean it comes with a commercial license. Especially when it comes to fonts, which are their own special beast under US Copyright law. If you aren't developing something for Amazon, it's best to stay away from both Ember and Bookerly. Foundries have started going after authors for using unlicensed typefaces on covers (and even with content). I'm not sure I'd want Amazon delivering takedowns to other distributors. It's just not worth the risk of poking Amazon when there are actual open source license available that allow the font files to be embedded and can be used for commercial purposes.

Thank you for the feedback

Just to be clear. I did not download the font. I am creating an ebook with Amazon software that has the font already inside. I am then exporting it as an .epub. I would assume this is 100% fine as long as my books are at Amazon.

I guess I will be forced to either use the ugly as heck monospace font they provide and hope clients do not mind.

 

[Stan123]

Found this, but like everything on the internet, it would need checking out.

Is Bookerly Font Free?
Yes! The Bookerly font is free to use for personal and commercial purposes. Feel free to download Bookerly font family right now:

The Bookerly Font: Free Download - Onedesblog

Bookerly is a serif typeface designed by Dalton Maag as an exclusive font for reading on Amazon's Kindle devices and apps. Combined with a new typesetting engine, Amazon.com asserts that the font helps the user "read faster with less eyestrain." The font includes ligatures and kerning pairs.

All I know for definite is that whatever font you use at upload, when converted, Bookerly is the default font for reading on kindles for re-flowable text, but the reader can change to other standard fonts included on the device.

If what it says above is correct about free commercial use, then I can't see why you couldn't use the output ePub from Kindle create through other avenues. But then I could be wrong?

Please feel free to refute any of this as I am no expert on font copyright. All I do is use Word professional, and so I can use the fonts for commercial use and I use Microsoft Office and Word to format all my books' internal text and to produce ads.

Thank you for the research. I designed the book in "Amazon Ember" even though "Bookerly" and "Monospace" are the only other two options. Bookerly would be a better font to use than monospace, although I think Amazon may arguably detect it easier.

I now regret ever using the Kindle Create software...

 

[Stan123]

If you're asking about Bookerly, you can't get around the outline loophole because the typeface itself is proprietary and built into the Kindle devices, not inserted into the ebooks delivered to Kindle devices.

If you're looking for a good open source typeface for e-ink devices to embed in your epubs, check out League of Moveable Type's website. Barry Schwartz designed Linden Hill to be used in e-ink devices. It's similar to Bookerly without being a knock-off.

My issue is not as much as to which font I can use, it's a matter of getting it to work. I have tried changing the font using Calibre. It works, but the book then becomes ugly and broken in other areas. I would like to have kept the book 100% the same and just swop the font out. Calibre sure ain't easy to use.

 

[Stan123]

“Monospace” is a generic font classification like serif or sans-serif. I’m sure there are font files by that name, but more likely any software using it is just telling the reading system to use its built-in default for monospace type. It’s usually used for code.

Desktop font licenses nearly always allow for use in commercial printed materials. It’s mostly fonts obtained via free font sites that carve out restrictions for commercial vs personal use. Fonts that came to you via your OS should be fine for paperback.

Ebook is different, because the only way to embed the font is to include the actual font file within the epub itself. Thus the license to do so can be pricy, and it’s not included with an ordinary desktop license.

I may have replied to this post, but it seems everything I typed as a reply has gone missing.

I will try again. I normally check that I use fonts that are commercially free to use. I never did so for reflowable ebooks though. I will be more vigilant from now on. I wonder why Amazon included monospace as one of the three only options to use.

Amazon has traditionally disallowed use of their software (aka "Publishing Tools") to generate files meant for sale elsewhere. But I wasn't able to find the EULA for KC, so can't confirm whether that applies.

I have gone into the software folder looking for their "terms of use" which seems to be a replica of this link. (It seems quite outdated 2012)

Amazon.com: Feature Doc 70

Online shopping from a great selection at Feature Doc 70 Store.

www.amazon.com

I would read that font license like this. It's meant for internal use, and Amazon developers can use it without fees or attribution to create Amazon products such as the Kindle Create application. That's pretty much it, it doesn't expressly grant you permission to redistribute it via an EPUB embed, so I wouldn't assume that's permitted. It's possible though that KC obfuscates/scrambles the font in the generated epub, which would mean you aren't redistributing it.

Thank you for taking the time to read the font policy, I appreciate it.

I checked the code of the exported .epub using Calibre and it definitely still sees "Amazon Ember" in the code. Heck knows what other code Amazon embeds inside the exported files like perhaps IP addresses and so forth.

If you’re worried about problems in using Amazon resources to publish outside of Amazon, I think the easiest solution would be to instead use tools that are platform-agnostic. The closest free option that's comparable to KC might be Reedsy's free formatting tool.

I wasn't worried, but I am sure as heck worried now. I have never heard of the Reedsy tool. Thank you for that and will check it out.

 

[Stan123]

Why has no one yet said that in an ebook, the font is often determined by the user (aka the reader) on their devices and any attempts to manipulate it should be strongly discouraged, because it causes stuff to break.

Basically, if you make an ebook, you don't specify the font. Just don't. The readers and their devices do that. You want your ebook to be as break-proof possible.

Perhaps my thread is confusing. I am NOT trying to specify my own fonts. I am working with software that has Amazon fonts included and exports the .epub with those fonts.
I am worried that if I use that .epub with those fonts inside, it will be a problem for Amazon.

 

[Stan123]

Honestly, at this point just use D2D's epub generator. It's free to use and they rely on open-sourced typefaces that are fine for distribution.

The problem you're having right now is Calibre is not an epub editor. It is capable of doing some things, but it was never designed to generate epubs, despite what self-publishers claim. It's a simple tool and doesn't require much technical know-how, so it's recommended.

What you want to be doing is opening the epub up in Sigil. Open the CSS. Then look for the font settings. Make sure the font-family is set to serif or sans serif and let the device pick the default typeface.

I downloaded Sigil and will see how it works. Sounds complicated though as you are mentioning CSS which is greek to me.

I am wondering though what would happen by the time I upload my "Amazon embedded fonts .epub" in D2D's generator. Would be great if they just kinda convert it.

 

[Stan123]

Well, first of all, you have a problem using Kindle Create and thinking you can publish that file anywhere else. It just won't happen. KC is a proprietary program and can only be published through KDP.

"Can" or "am allowed"? I am creating .epub file. Is a KC .epub file different from other industry standard .epub files?

So, go back to Word, or one of the free equivalents. Using TNR is included in the Word software, so no issue there. For ebooks, it's all you need. So, you don't need to be worried about any of this, you are making it far too complicated for what it is.

What is TNR? My book is not a typical written book as in a novel. It is a non-fiction book. It has many pictures in and using word is less than ideal (to me at least).
I could do a decent reflowable book using KC.

Now, print books? Yeah. A bit more formatting, and again, can't be done using Kindle Create anywhere but Amazon.

I am not talking about their .KCB files here. I am talking about their .epub files. Is what you are saying that Amazon .epub files will not work anywhere else?

 

[Stan123]

First, fonts are intellectual property and copyrighted. The fonts used by Amazon are in-house and the license to use them is part of the package. Ebooks are known as "reflowable" publications because the layout is determined by the device and the reader, who can choose font size and type, so you cannot set your font outside of the ones available. This is because the fonts must have the ability to reflow. Now, there is a setting in Kindle Create that allows you to override the font for things like chapter titles or even passages, but you are still limited to the fonts in the program.

Hi there

I am basically familiar on how to use Kindle Create. I am trying to find out the terms of using their software and fonts to create a .epub. Do they have some sort of legal standing in me using their software with the fonts inside? Am I only allowed to distribute the .epub I created with their software to Amazon?

I put together a tutorial on how to use Kindle Create to put together your book over on youtube.Currently you can use Kindle Create to make an epub version, but it will not produce a PDF file for print. The file format Amazon uses is KPF (Kindle Print File), and is used to create both the electronic and print version of the book. If you're interested in learning about how to use Kindle Create to design your book, you can check out my tutorial. I've also put together a tutorial on how to do a layout for print publication using Scribus, an open source design and layout program similar to Adobe In Line.

Thank you. Checking out your tutorial.
Edit: I like your voice. You should be on Focus on the Family or Radio or something.

 

[Stan123]

Thanks. I'm not a huge fan of how I sound, but then most people don't like the sound of their own voice. I narrated my first book (and I'm working on the second) because I've had a lot of people ask for an audio book version, though I'm not happy with it. But since audiobooks are one of the fastest growing segments in publishing, and I can't afford to hire a narrator, and no one has complained (too much), I guess I'm stuck doing them. It's nice to have a person who doesn't know me say they like my voice. I appreciate it.

No worries. I meant it and in my opinion, you can do audiobooks with your voice.

As to using Kindle Create for making an epub version for distributing to other outlets, I don't believe there's any restriction. It is in beta, and I haven't played with it too much yet, but it does seem to work okay.

What's stupid is that their documentation (if it's the right documentation) is old and unclear.

The KPF file (the default output) will only work with Kindle, and you can't make a PDF of the book using Kindle Create, so it's not good for print books outside of Amazon, though the KPF will create a print version for Amazon. I would recommend reaching out to the Kindle support team for an authoritative answer. The only exception I know of would be if you have your book enrolled in the Kindle Unlimited program, which requires that you have it exclusively on Amazon.

I will only be using .epub (I very muched liked the .KPF format for my fixed layout books, but I didn't use it as I knew that only Amazon will upload those. I am now hoping I can legally en safely upload a KDP generated .epub to lets say D2D.

Unfortunately KDP has written me off and is treating me like a dog in Calcutta. No way I am contacting them to ask this. I cannot trust a word they say anymore. My opinion of them was great until 2 months ago. But I still have friends who use them and are happy....oh well.

 

[Stan123]

Since I started this topic regarding the Kindle Create Amazon fonts, I went through some of my paperbacks just to double check. I see that I generally tried to use "free for commercial use" fonts as I pre-emptively tried to be as safe as possible. But I did not bother to check the licensing of very common fonts such as Arial Narrow and Verdana Bold. It is the Microsoft fonts in particular that is catching me off guard with the terms for commercial use for paperbacks especially. I had to literally change my whole document which had parts of the Verdana in.

I also own some older Adobe software and try to use their fonts where I can. It is also rather confusing as to who actually publishes the correct licensing of a font. Some places say Verdana is free for commercial use. Others will say that you have to buy it. Microsoft is the most ridiculous with their very vague wording.

I am making snapshots of the licencing of where I got the supposedly free fonts. Not sure how much that would help me. I highly doubt that someone will look at my books and complain about the fonts. It is rather the distribution channels (etc. D2D or Ingram) that have issues of the fonts I embedded in my files. Surely they can only assume I have the legal rights to those fonts?

 

[Stan123]

I don't know what your budget is, but if you can scrape together $147, I highly recommend Atticus. It's not cheap, but it is very easy to use, it creates ePub files which can be used on Amazon to create an eBook, and it has a lot more versatility than Kindle Create. KC is not bad, considering it's free, and it's come a long way since the original DOS based ebook software they had years ago, but Atticus is really good. Scrivener isn't bad either, but it's hard to learn. I'm working on a Scrivener video right now, and I find it counter intuitive (the prorgam, hopefully not the video ).

After KDP closed my account, I lost all my income. So opening $147 on software feels kind of risky, especially if distributors can close accounts so easily. I have also downloaded Scrivenger (Sigil) (I got confused between the two) and need to see if it will work for me. If it needs code, no way I will use it. It seems like most software is going online these days. I hate that and much prefer doing things offline. If I recover from what happened to my books and it seems to be going well, I will perhaps reconsider Atticus.

I have however checked my KDP .epub file with D2D and it gives the following results:

Validation for current epub: 0 fatals / 0 errors / 0 warnings / 0 infos
Your epub is valid according to EPUB version 3.0 rules.

The question whether I am allowed to use the Kindle Create .epub, still remains unresolved. I spent a lot of work using the Kindle Create software....so either way it will be terrible if I had to recreate my .epub. But if I have to do it, I will, especially if there is a better way.

 

[Stan123]

Sorry to hear about your issue with KDP.

Thank you

You can, but D2D likes to use their own epub, so it will tell you you won't be able to use their features, such as automatic table of content generation. If you've already built that in yours then you don't need to worry about it. I get the same notice when I upload files I created with Atticus.

I am not worried about the features of D2D at this stage. I cannot seem to find an answer whether it is "okay (or allowed)" to use a .epub created with Kindle Create and its fonts, and then publishing everywhere else aside from Amazon. I think the .epub will view and work fine...it is a matter if I am allowed to publish it or not. As my account is closed, I cannot ask them.
Also, I understand that the notice basically says the book will work. As for Atticus, I am sure they have their own fonts which can be used because the software was purchased. As Kindle Create is free to use, it is uncertain if free means if one can freely use it (especially outside Amazon).

Atticus is an odd bird. You don't have to be online to use is, just to open it. It is a browser based app, meaning it runs in your browser whether you have a connection or not. You need to be online because your files are stored online, and you need that initial connection in the beginning to open the project you want to work on. Once that's done, you can go offline.

Thank you for the input regarding Atticus. I doubt I will use software that needs storing my content on their side for it to be able to work. I prefer creating .epub .mobi .pdf etc. offline, and then upload complete files.

I haven't used sigil so I don't know if it requires coding. Scrivener comes highly recommended, but it does have a high learning curve. It does, however, have 30 (I believe) free launches for you to evaluate the software. I like this feature because most software has a 30 day trial while scrivener has 30 free uses, so you can open it 30 times, with no limit on the number of days it takes you to use those 30 instances.

Cool, thanks. I opened Scrivenger and noticed the 30 uses thing. If it is confirmed that I am not allowed to use Kindle Create, I will be forced to look to Scrivenger and so forth.

 

[Stan123]

Sigil does require coding.

Thank you.

 

[Stan123]

D2D stipulates that they strip out fonts when you upload epubs with them:

If I format my file myself, will it look exactly the same when you convert it?

No. Ebooks are a reflowable format that allows the reader a lot of flexibility in how they consume content. To provide the best reader experience, Draft2Digital’s automated conversion process will strip out things that force formatting to be one exact way— embedded fonts, extra line breaks, empty pages, footnotes, or anything the system considers unnecessary to the final file.

Has anyone experienced that this is indeed the case?

Why I'm asking, is that if they actually strip out embedded fonts, I will not have the problem of unwanted licensed fonts in my file...Also, I would like it if D2D removes all traces of Amazon software in my file. Probably wishful thinking. I find it interesting however that Adobe Digital Editions doesn't want to preview my approved .epub file. I do not know if this is due to Amazon somehow restricting my file, or if the problem lies with Adobe. My file does however view in most other previewers.

 

[Stan123]

Failing to display in ADE is a problem. Most non-Kindle devices use some form of Adobe’s engine under the hood. It’s likely that there is some style rule it doesn’t like.

It’s interesting to see that D2D’s conversion strips footnotes for being “unnecessary.” Wonder what the rationale is there.

Hmm...I downloaded the "stripped" .epub and it could not view in ADE. Nor could the original .epub. I could however view another .epub that was not created in KC.

I hope they strip the fonts. I will see if I can tell D2D that I have a unwanted font in my document and if they can strip it.

 

[Stan123]

Stan, I don't know where you're getting your information, but Kindle Create does not output an epub. It only outputs the proprietary Amazon format, and it can't be used anywhere else. So, all this work you are doing, all the worry you are causing yourself is for nothing.

I'm sorry. But you are the one with the wrong info here. I created .epubs using Kindle Create. In the past, I could only do .kcb or .kpf. But trust me, I have the .epub files in front of me Just so you know, D2D uploaded my "proprietary Amazon format" file just fine. But that's not the question, which you do not seem to be getting.

You've been told to simply upload an ebook as epub, using a basic font like Times New Roman (TNR). Ebook users can adjust the font**, so doing anything else is pointless. Don't embed, don't use the font you may want. Just more problems and you don't seem to be getting what we're saying.

You are obviously not reading my post properly or you are not understanding. Let me say it once more. I am NOT trying to embed fonts. I am NOT trying to alter code. I am using Kindle Create software who gives me 3 fonts to choose from. These fonts are Amazon fonts. These fonts are exported in the .epub of to which I have no control over. I have spent months now using this software. There are more than 300-500 images that I meticulously had to place in the layout of this book. We're also talking about slicing as well as specific pixel sizes here for each image. I also had to spend many hours making the text appear right for each page.

Honestly, at this point it would be a lot easier on you to use Draft to Digital's free conversion service. You can use their file outputs where you wish. They do all the conversion, all the necessary embedding, all the placements of whatever. And it's free. Upload a Word file, let them do the work.

My book is not a typical "novel". Due to fixed layout and .mobi being phased out, I am forced to go .epub and reflowable. I am terrible at word and I have tried it for my book. The best software so far, is Kindle Create.

I am simply asking if I am allowed to distribute my Kindle Create (Amazon) ebook at places other than Amazon. Especially if their file contains fonts that ONLY comes from Amazon.
(**It is irrelevent what fonts the reader can change to. The question is whether D2D strips out these Amazon fonts when one uses their conversion service. Take note, I have uploaded a .epub to this service and they found no problems. But I am still yet to have a confirmation whether D2D strips out the fonts as they claim).

At this point, I see no further benefit to keep trying to explain stuff to you. You don't seem to listen, or to believe what any of us are telling you, so it's just wasting time. Good luck to you. Maybe you'll figure it out, or learn how to hire someone to do the work for you.

Please do not make claims when you yourself are outdated with your information. If you don't have the answers, simply do not answer to this thread. Also please do not drag everyone into your claim that I am not listening when you are not bothering to read my posts properly. I am telling you that I can create .epub files with Kindle Create. You are the one not listening...

Here's proof:
Pre-release features (beta); Update books prepared with Kindle Create ... Both KPF and EPUB formats support most book formatting features

 

[Stan123]

I re-checked my file with Calibre to see what it picks up. What's interesting with this .epub, is that there seems to be NO fonts

The css code does however still mentions fonts:

.class-0-1 {
font-family : "Amazon Ember" ;
font-size : 1.85rem ;
letter-spacing : 0.25rem ;
line-height : 1.2em ;
margin-left : 10.0% ;
margin-right : 10.0% ;
margin-top : 4.8em ;
text-align : center ;
text-transform : uppercase ;
}