[MegHarris]

Bottom line (IMO) is that Amazon is prioritizing customers complaining about adult material found while searching for keyword related items. I say that because I hear a lot of rallying that smut writers are being maliciously targeted. Despite filters that have been in place for awhile now I still see smut while searching for misc stuff. I don't mind but I'll bet tens of millions of other shoppers do.

Well, then, why don't they just institute an adult on/off switch? They've been muddling around with adult titles for a long time now. Why not just do like Smashwords and have a real, proper adult filter that people can use or not, as they choose?

 

[Mysterio]

There's solid evidence to suggest at least a few Amazon reviewers are using much stricter guidelines than all the others. Specifically, Carlos F. is blocking most books by erotica authors. This is the name listed in the emails many erotica authors are receiving when they get blocked.

Many of the books he's blocking aren't even pseudo-incest and are fairly tame in other respects. Unfortunately, this is only adding to the confusion about the new standards and Amazon doesn't even seem to know about the problem.

Someone needs to alert KDP that not all their reviewers are on the same page with blocking content, but I'm not sure where this kind of complaint would be routed to.

 

[D.L. Shutter]

Well, then, why don't they just institute an adult on/off switch?

118'th time I've heard that suggestion and it sounds smarter each time. If every art and stock photo site (heck, any site) can insert a basic adult function like that then it should be a butt scratch of an effort for Zon. Would solve a LOT of problems (for everyone) and probably save Zon a heaping on manpower for screening and acting on tens of thousands of adult titles.

Hell, Jeff can even take credit for it and leave us a note on the main page. "To better serve the interests of all our customers we'll be instituting a new search function that..."

Everyone goes back to being happy and Jeff's a hero. Again.

 

[RaeC]

By implementing a switch on their storefront, Amazon would be acknowledging that they do in fact sell naughty stories, and they're such great sellers that it warrants a switch.  Can't have the gentle, high brow ninnies realizing that while they're shopping for a copy of Lolita for school and flimsy Bratz costumes for the kiddies on Halloween.

 

[Guest]

Judging by the erotica forums I lurk at this is growing. Perhaps moreso than last years crackdown. Anything suggestive of violence, non-consent, PI and (potentially) bestiality themes is getting smacked hard. Bottom line (IMO) is that Amazon is prioritizing customers complaining about adult material found while searching for keyword related items. I say that because I hear a lot of rallying that smut writers are being maliciously targeted. Despite filters that have been in place for awhile now I still see smut while searching for misc stuff. I don't mind but I'll bet tens of millions of other shoppers do.

It's Halloween season. Just imagine how many "Force F*@%ed by the ------" titles are popping up during costume searches for kids right now. It happened to me the other night.

I actually had this issue last night as well. I was browsing for some new horror titles and came across a few titles that...well...probably should not have been under the general "horror" search.

I think what is happening, however, is a self-perpetuating cycle. Amazon has ALWAYS been heavy-handed with everything. This is nothing new. Amazon is not known for using a scalpel to repair an issue. They have always used a chainsaw. And yes, I think it is clear from everything that I have read that they have been cracking down on erotic titles. I do not doubt this.

But, erotica authors have perpetuated the problem by simply miscategorizing their books to evade the Amazon filters. There is NO reason an erotic title should be categorized under the horror genre. And looking at some of the titles, they aren't just showing up in horror search. The authors have put them in the horror genre. I understand the idea: put it in genres where it will be seen. But by doing this, you encourage more customer complaints from people who are seeing erotic titles when they are searching for other things.

And the more complaints Amazon gets, the more they use the chainsaw.

The solution is for Amazon to institute an adult filter on the site. That is the practical solution. But then there is the issue that erotica authors won't use it. Even when I browse on Smashwords with the adult filter, I come across obviously erotic content where the author chose to not label it adult. If authors don't use the filter, the filter doesn't work.
I am curious if erotic authors have considered getting together to communicate with Amazon en masse to find a solution? Not some stupid public petition that is just meant to be confrontational. But several dozen authors getting together and contacting Amazon to say "We have noticed this. We know it is happening. How can WE help AMAZON develop a better system to support OUR customers?"

The worst that happens is you get a form reply. The best that happens is that you get a seat at the virtual table and maybe something can be sorted out. But it may be more effective to simply get together and confront the issue directly and professionally instead of hand-wringing in forums.

 

[ElHawk]

Great suggestion, Julie.  I hope erotica authors will take your advice and do just that!

 

[Vaalingrade]

Amazon DOT Com: "If it was good enough for Betamax, it's good enough for us."

 

[Eltanin Publishing]

I am far from a prude, but I do think it's reasonable for titles and covers to not be overly graphic, because they do on occasion come up accidentally for people searching for other things. This would be my opinion if I came across "[Expletive] in Hard the A** By The Neighbor" when I wasn't looking for porn (though, don't you mean "[Expletive] Hard in the A** By The Neighbor"?).

That being said, looks like Amazon does need to be more specific when explaining what is and isn't acceptable. If people clearly knew what was ok and what wan't, it would make "adapting" much easier.

 

[MsTee]

This worked for me. My best selling title, which had been ranked 5K-8K for at least a month, was blocked. I emailed title-submission@amazon.com and asked to re-work the cover, description and title. I re-worked it, it was re-blocked. I asked again, really stripped things down the second time around, and it was accepted and published.

Amazon's just trying to clean up the store front. I changed zero content within the actual book. They're not out to get writers of erotica, they're just trying to keep their storefront from turning into a wall of super-smut.

My advise is to re-work your title, description and cover then resubmit.

^ This. I was languishing in the Adult filter for awhile and I knew why but I was too stubborn to change it. Eventually, I went and covered my lady on the cover (though she WAS wearing underthings; she was just standing at an awkward angle where you couldn't see it clearly). I also removed keywords that Amazon might have attributed to more innocent stuff. When I emailed Author Central, the rep removed the filter for me very quickly.

I read an informative article by Selena Kitt here: http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/09/17/amazon-at-it-again-blocking-pseudoincest-and-monster-sex/

I completely agree with her. Amazon has no problem with erotica or smutty works - that is obvious in the fact that they have a DEDICATED store to adult toys and are selling adult DVDs - they just don't want your erotica...looking like erotica. No swear words in your titles and descriptions. No words that will be related with kids stuff in your keywords. No butts, thong-wearing, exposed breasts, neck-kissing, breast-grabbing - no 90% of skin (both female and male skin) revealed on your covers.

Still, I'm a bit ambivalent about the adaptation of Fifty-Shades-esque covers. On one hand, it'll be nice to no longer be shocked and turned off by vulgar, unimaginative titles and sex scenes in descriptions, but on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to erotica covers being forced to only have feathers or cuff-links or cat collars on them.

 

[RaeC]

I think the question is: were there these large amounts of miscategorizations before the removal of the visible erotica link and the implementation of the "dungeon"?  You guys would know better than I would, but I have a hard time imagining innocuous keyword searches brought about the threat of smut listings 3 or 4 years ago.  At least I can't remember it happening to me.

And I have an even harder time believing that Amazon, this brilliant, forward-thinking company everyone describes, didn't see this coming when they actively decided they only wanted to be backdoor smut peddlers and screen off the front from a large portion of their indie success stories.  These success stories, I might add, are what encouraged a slew of new self-pub authors--some erotica, some not--to give it a go.  I'm not saying this is some grand scheme to systematically filter out the unwanteds by forcing them to break the rules, but I can see how some people might feel that way.

 

[daringnovelist]

But, erotica authors have perpetuated the problem by simply miscategorizing their books to evade the Amazon filters. There is NO reason an erotic title should be categorized under the horror genre. And looking at some of the titles, they aren't just showing up in horror search. The authors have put them in the horror genre. I understand the idea: put it in genres where it will be seen. But by doing this, you encourage more customer complaints from people who are seeing erotic titles when they are searching for other things.

Yep yep yep.

The fear of the "adult dungeon" is also causing a lot of people to misrepresent their work in all sorts of ways. People get desperate. But really, it's important to not make things worse. (And remember, just because folks here talk it out, doesn't mean that those who hear the rumors actually know what's going on.)

The "taming down" of descriptions shouldn't be about hiding the true content. Also, keywords -- that could be a big driver of this problem. If people are key wording their books as " Halloween, Monsters, Sex" then it's going to come up along with kids Halloween books about monsters. It may trigger Amazon to put "Halloween sex, Vampire erotica" sorts of keywords -- but it won't trigger so many complaints which are the real trigger for Amazon crackdowns.

Camille

 

[katherinef]

Looks like my newest title could get blocked. Oh, well. I'll sell it elsewhere if Amazon doesn't want it. But they should really have a filter for this thing and add subcategories for erotica. It would solve so many problems.

 

[Nicole Castro]

By implementing a switch on their storefront, Amazon would be acknowledging that they do in fact sell naughty stories, and they're such great sellers that it warrants a switch. Can't have the gentle, high brow ninnies realizing that while they're shopping for a copy of Lolita for school and flimsy Bratz costumes for the kiddies on Halloween.

LMAO exactly.

And once Amazon takes this sales hit, I have to think that an option will quickly be instilled.

 

[mrv01d]

But, erotica authors have perpetuated the problem by simply miscategorizing their books to evade the Amazon filters.

Authors aren't perpetuating the problem, Amazon is. No one would be miscategorizing their books if Amazon would manage the whole thing properly. This was not a common practice among indies until Amazon started removing books from search.

And, of course, genre hopping is a widespread issue anyway. I've seen traditionally pubbed romance 'slumming' in erotica b/c it was easier to rank in Top 100 and gain the visibility needed to boost sales.

M

 

[mrv01d]

^ This. I was languishing in the Adult filter for awhile and I knew why but I was too stubborn to change it. Eventually, I went and covered my lady on the cover (though she WAS wearing underthings; she was just standing at an awkward angle where you couldn't see it clearly). I also removed keywords that Amazon might have attributed to more innocent stuff. When I emailed Author Central, the rep removed the filter for me very quickly.

I read an informative article by Selena Kitt here: http://selenakitt.com/blog/index.php/2013/09/17/amazon-at-it-again-blocking-pseudoincest-and-monster-sex/

I completely agree with her. Amazon has no problem with erotica or smutty works - that is obvious in the fact that they have a DEDICATED store to adult toys and are selling adult DVDs - they just don't want your erotica...looking like erotica. No swear words in your titles and descriptions. No words that will be related with kids stuff in your keywords. No butts, thong-wearing, exposed breasts, neck-kissing, breast-grabbing - no 90% of skin (both female and male skin) revealed on your covers.

Still, I'm a bit ambivalent about the adaptation of Fifty-Shades-esque covers. On one hand, it'll be nice to no longer be shocked and turned off by vulgar, unimaginative titles and sex scenes in descriptions, but on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to erotica covers being forced to only have feathers or cuff-links or cat collars on them.

Weeell from what I've heard/observed elsewhere, the scrutiny now goes down to content. They're really combing through stuff. I don't think this is a title cover purge alone.

M

 

[Guest]

Great suggestion, *****. I hope erotica authors will take your advice and do just that!

Thanks. The one thing I see that continues to happen with this issue is that both sides just get more confrontational. Erotica authors get more in-your-face. Some of the comments I read on various sites about this are really insulting to people who don't read erotica, frankly. It is no more appropriate for erotica authors to call readers prudes for not wanting to see erotic content than it is for others to call erotica authors smut-peddlers or other names for writing erotica. Respect has to work BOTH WAYS.

The goal of EVERYONE involved should be a smooth customer experience. If I am looking for a cute father-daughter book for a friend's kid, I don't want to have to scroll through pages of step-daddy sex stories. And I would think customers interested in step-daddy sex stories would in fact be EQUALLY annoyed if they had to scroll through pages of children's books talking about father-daughter relationships to find what they wanted.

The fact that Amazon sells adult sex toys is not relevant to the conversation because I have never in over a decade of being an Amazon customer accidentally came across an adult sex toy while looking for children's toys. I HAVE, however, come across erotic books while looking for children's and YA titles for gifts. And every time it has happened, it has been from an indie author.

And to be clear, I don't mean that it is the author's fault per se. Part of the problem is that KDP offers limited tools for categorizing books to begin with. KDP titles are not categorized the same way trade pub books are. So authors have to sometimes put things "where they best fit" instead of "where they belong." And yes, there are ways to fix this manually by working with customer service directly. But outside of KB, how many authors know this?

So my hope is that a group of authors will get together and approach Amazon in a way that recognizes that the goal is to benefit ALL customers and make ALL customers have a positive experience. So long as the standard response remains working in small corners of erotica forums trying to find workarounds to Amazon's filters INSTEAD of talking directly with Amazon, this situation will only get worse for all parties involved.

Amazon is NOT going to take the initiative here to invite erotica authors to the table. They need to write their own invitation and make it clear to Amazon that they want the same thing Amazon does: to help customers make good choices based on their preferences.

Heck, I'm willing to help write the initial communications and help with the wording (I have a background in Public Relations, after all). Just get a group together interested in signing on the project. I can help with the presentation, but I'm not an erotica author so I can't fight the fight.

 

[Alex Anders]

Typically audio books aren't blocked, at least thus far. It seems that ACX is enough of a separate division that what goes for ebooks doesn't go for audio, but that could change.

M

I have personally spoken to the person at ACX who is responsible for removing Amazon censored books from Audible. She told me that she got a notice from Amazon asking them to remove one of my Audiobooks. It was one of the first that she had gotten so she called me because we had spoken many times before.

I told her how I had contacted Amazon many times to find out what was wrong with the book and that I had never gotten a clear response. She then replied back to her contacts asking them for specific reasons for why ACX should remove my title. They never responded to her, so she never removed the book. I think that from that point forward, their policy became that they don't remove books unless they are given a very specific reason why. And because Amazon doesn't even give reasons to their actual partners, we are safe for now.

That happened about a year ago (I think). But that shows you the difference between the attitude at ACX vs Amazon.

 

[jackz4000]

Excellent well-balance post Julie. I've seen them pop-up too when I'm searching a genre or using keywords. A while back they were coming up in genres which weren't erotica. I thought it was weird, but I'm sure some people didn't like it.  

If I'm searching for kitchen faucets I don't expect software to be included.  

 

[D.L. Shutter]

So my hope is that a group of authors will get together and approach Amazon in a way that recognizes that the goal is to benefit ALL customers and make ALL customers have a positive experience.

Best thought on the subject I've heard so far. Someone with a following and a big number of ears could do a good job at championing this.

 

[Betsy the Quilter]

I wonder if the fact that Amazon is releasing new Paperwhites on October 1 and new Fires mid October through November has anything to do with this?  Perhaps they anticipate a bunch of new site users.

Betsy