[Zenferno]

One of my recent banned books has a passage where the characters are doing PI roleplay. It's not the subject of the book and it accounts for less than 5% of the narrative. Still their resident voyeur Carlos, reviewing books with his fainting couch conveniently nearby, saw "Daddy" and zapped it on that basis. There is no rhyme or reason nor proliferation of PI, just the "wrong" word in the wrong context and so I'm having to censor the entire book just in case the word "daddy" attracts negative attention. That's just plain wrong.

Wow, this is huge if they are doing this across the board. I thought it was just the cover, title and blurb they were going after (?) Are you certain it was this content that caused the block and not something else? Lots of KB'ers have been re-uploading their titles after sanitizing everything except the story and getting re-approved.

 

[swolf]

If you write PI or anything that could be construed as rape, get if off BN ASAP as I do think those books are in the crosshairs.

The odd thing about this is that up to now, B&N allowed pure incest to be published. And now they're banning people for publishing PI? What a bunch of hypocrites. Make money off of us, and then ban us like it's our fault when the light gets shone on them.

 

[CoraBuhlert]

Regarding rape for titillation, romantic rape, dubious or straight out non-consent and often pretty nasty violence were standard tropes in the romance genre in the 1970s and 1980s, particularly in the so-called "bodiceripper" romances.

Take for example Christine Monson's debut novel Stormfire from 1984. Here is a synopsis and here a discussion of the book at Goodreads. In Stormfire, the "hero" abducts and violently rapes the heroine, who is 17 at the time BTW, and also physically abuses her to the point that she suffers a miscarriage. And this was supposed to be romantic. And guess what? Used copies are available at Amazon.

And yet they freak out about dubious consent and step-daddy erotica.

 

[brie.mcgill]

Just for fun, can someone please define romantic rape?

 

[cinisajoy]

Just for fun, can someone please define romantic rape?

I don't think there is a definition.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

I can understand making a general sweep to cover you back from a legal perspective. I just don't understand why it doesn't seem consistent. The dino porn is still top selling on Amazon, I guess bestiality doesn't apply to animals that are extinct?

Its probably not consistent because to the size of the set of books they are dealing with, and the difficulty in teaching computers how to identify the stuff they are after. Suppose they are on a three month project, and suppose they do a perfect job by their standards. At any point up to the last day, there will be inconsistencies because they haven't finished the job.

A poor analogy is going through an alphabetic list of names, looking at names, and deleting all the men. When they have progressed through P, there will still be lots of men on the list. There will also be men on the list whose names begin with G , because they didnt know if Gerry was a male or female.

It would be easy if the data allowed a simple filter to be run. But unless someone has set all those flags, the filters have nothing to look at.

I thought Dino Porn was a joke. Now Im not sure. Is there really Dino Porn? (Did I actually just ask that?) I thought they only laid eggs.

 

[Lana Amore]

Just for fun, can someone please define romantic rape?

Ravishment fantasy? In RL, I got nothing.

 

[Andrew Ashling]

Just for fun, can someone please define romantic rape?

In Yaoi (sort of Japanese m/m-romance) there is a trope "rape him till he loves you."

Very popular, though I never could quite understand it.

 

[WordSaladTongs]

In Yaoi (sort of Japanese m/m-romance) there is a trope "rape him till he loves you."

Very popular, though I never could quite understand it.

I think General Hospital once had a storyline like this.

 

[SandraMiller]

I think General Hospital once had a storyline like this.

Oh, gosh, I'm not the only one who remembers that? If it's the one I'm thinking, I was a teenager, and it made me SO MAD to see a character marry the man who once did that to her--and not only that, but they were one of the show's super couples.

Barf.

 

[WordSaladTongs]

Oh, gosh, I'm not the only one who remembers that? If it's the one I'm thinking, I was a teenager, and it made me SO MAD to see a character marry the man who once did that to her--and not only that, but they were one of the show's super couples.

Barf.

Sadly, no, I remember it, it was Luke and Laura. And other soaps have done sort of similar things. Wasn't it romantic on AMC when Adam loved Erica so much that he kidnapped her? It's totally bonkers how popular that stuff was (is?).

Sorry for the derail. BAN SOAP OPERAS! BAN SOAP! STINK MORE!

 

[CoraBuhlert]

Basically, it's a guy rapes a woman (or man in the yaoi scenario Andrew described), but since he's really handsome and gives really great orgasms, even though he raped her (or him), the victim eventually falls in love with his or her rapist. It's all rather creepy and offputting, but such raped into love scenarios were extremely common in certain historical romances up to approx. 1990 (and according to some authors many publisher required rape scenarios in those days).

The reasoning I've heard for the popularity of such scenarios is that they abdicate the woman from responsibility for daring to enjoy sex. Basically, the woman gets to have sex and even enjoy it, but she's not a slut - after all, he forced her and she didn't really want to. It's a symptom of the sexual double standard, which is probably why it gradually evaporated in the early 1990s. However, many romance bestsellers from the 1970s and 1980s have "Raped into love" scenarios and they are still available at Amazon, even though a new erotica or maybe even steamy romance novel with the same scenario would get blocked.

Here is a selection of hugely popular books with "rape into love" tropes:

The Flame and the Flower by Kathleen E. Woodiwiss

Sweet Savage Love by Rosemary Rogers

Warrior's Song by Catherine Coulter

The Rebel Bride by Catherine Coulter

Whitney, My Love by Judith McNaught

Hearts Aflame by Joanna Lindsey

Captive Bride by Joanna Lindsey

 

[RaeC]

IRL, wouldn't that be the scenario for many marriages in the days when it wasn't considered rape to force your wife?

 

[daringnovelist]

IRL, wouldn't that be the scenario for many marriages in the days when it wasn't considered rape to force your wife?

Yeah, my first thought on hearing "What is romantic rape?" was Gone With The Wind.

 

[Deena Ward]

Well, seriously aging myself here, but ... I also remember Luke and Laura and Kathleen Woodiwiss. A friend in college loaned me some Woodiwiss and some books by an author whose name I can't recall. The books all had titles starting with "Daughters of ..." and centered around the life and loves of a trio of sisters who whenever they got in financial trouble (and they were always having financial troubles), opened a whorehouse for a while until they were flush again.

One aspect of some "mistaken rape" historical novels back then was the old, "Oh, so sorry about raping you. I thought you were a whore," excuse. Hero believed his pure virgin was an experienced street doxy and had simply done his manly business, thinking her cries of "Stop, you blackguard!" were intended solely for erotic effect. Oops! Oh, well, nothing to be done about it ... except marry the raped girl to make an honest woman of her. Geesh.

Wonder if that sort of thing still plays today? Wonder if the censors would ban a contemporary version of it?

 

[WordSaladTongs]

Yeah, my first thought on hearing "What is romantic rape?" was Gone With The Wind.

How could I forget this? It's so romantic, I almost don't want to admit you're right. It's as if the viewers' approval of Rhett and the romance made it somehow consensual. Now I feel dirty, and yet I've banned soap.

 

[daringnovelist]

One aspect of some "mistaken rape" historical novels back then was the old, "Oh, so sorry about raping you. I thought you were a whore," excuse. Hero believed his pure virgin was an experienced street doxy and had simply done his manly business, thinking her cries of "Stop, you blackguard!" were intended solely for erotic effect. Oops! Oh, well, nothing to be done about it ... except marry the raped girl to make an honest woman of her. Geesh.

Then there's the older version: Son of the Sheik.

Young lovers. He's a prince, she's a street dancer. Her family's gang uses their relationship to trap, kidnap and abuse him. They lie and tell him that she intentionally lured him into it. So as soon as he's free, he kidnaps and rapes her in revenge. She tries to hate him and yet can't. He eventually learns the truth, so then he goes and saves her from... I can't remember. Maybe just an awful life with her awful family, maybe from someone else doing to her what he did.

Camille

 

[DigitalMedia]

Offense is the best defense. Thats whats going on - nothing else.

I doubt that especially Amazon gives anything if their content is legal or not. I allready complained last year regarding illegal titles
in the kindle store multiple times via email - they never responded to this topic. I still have this emails saved to have proof what I`m saying
and enough experience with Amazon and other communication to underline that.

They`ve baned titles wich been absolutely soft, r-rated and let hardcore and illegal stuff in their both. I heavily doubt that they had NO
knowledge that they sold extreme titles. So it`s BS that the retailers are "surprised" - their actions now are just the try to keep a good
face to the world and to put the guiltyness in authors shoes.

This guys who never had to do something with hardcore, extreme material etc. and tried to follow or better overfollow the guidelines and the law`s are
harmed mostly now cuz their content/income get spoiled away in the great "clean up".

The retailers itself are responsible for the stuff they`ve listed - not authors or any BS artists who submit unaccepptable content. Or did anyone of you could upload
a ebook directly to store it immediately online on the big platforms? NO. All titles get "reviewed", right? reviewed through the teams from the retailers.

And to pass the review been just a question of luck (at Amazon) - depending who`s been reviewing even hard titles went through and other times even the softest
get blocked.

And the extremely vague written content guidelines - especially from Amazon - makes a big sense (for Amazon). If you never talk clear nobody can blame you
disturbing your own written rules, right? Or did anyone ever get a detailed explanation whats been wrong with a blocked title? I bet NO.

So, who bring the mess and who is responsible? So cristallwater clear....

VIOLANCE BEEN POSSIBLE CUZ IT BEEN ACCEPTED, PERIOD.

My theory - after some grass growns over the case the marketplaces will be again full of unacctable stuff. They really hit the wrong ones now and they will do
again - anytime when it`s bring fortune and covers the own dirty face.

Please excuse my bad english but I´m sure you got my point of view.

 

[swolf]

I allready complained last year regarding illegal titles in the kindle store multiple times via email - they never responded to this topic.

So you've complained to Amazon about 'illegal' books? Who determined that they were illegal?

 

[DigitalMedia]

So you've complained to Amazon about 'illegal' books? Who determined that they were illegal?

simple: the law