[SunHi Mistwalker]

THIS 100% this.

And slightly off-topic or totally on topic: my psych paper is still online. It is "The differences between Abuse and BDSM".

Can you please post a link. I would love to read this.

 

[cinisajoy]

Can you please post a link. I would love to read this.

Since it could be counted as self-promo, I will message you.

I think there is one typo in it if I remember right.

 

[swolf]

I totally understand why they would ban bestiality, incest or rape, but a consenting bdsm relationship? Sorry, but no. You cannot seriously mean to say that FSOG 'crosses the same lines' as a book that's about incest, bestiality or rape. That is just wrong on so many levels, I can't even ...

oh lord, I give up.

That's where you draw the line. Someone else may draw it in a different place. Some may draw it with books that glorify murder. Does that mean, because of their opinion, those books shouldn't be sold?

We're talking about fictional characters doing fictional things. No one is getting hurt. Why does anyone care if someone is writing or reading it?

Of course, Amazon has the right to not sell any book they choose. But we as writers should be for free expression, and disagree with the censorship of any book being sold to adults. And even more so if we hate what the book contains. Because it demonstrates that we don't want anyone deciding what should and shouldn't be read. And if we agree that the censorship of THOSE books is okay, then when they come for ours because someone, somewhere is offended by it, we have to accept that too.

 

[Andrew Ashling]

(&#8230 we as writers should be for free expression, and disagree with the censorship of any book being sold to adults. And even more so if we hate what the book contains. Because it demonstrates that we don't want anyone deciding what should and shouldn't be read. And if we agree that the censorship of THOSE books is okay, then when they come for ours because someone, somewhere is offended by it, we have to accept that too.

This. 100% this.

Completely unrelated, silly question. Does anyone know what Sony is doing and do we care?

 

[WordSaladTongs]

Does anyone know what Sony is doing and do we care?

Oh, man, my stomach hurts from laughing so hard. Thanks for that.

I'm not the only one who makes, like, $5 a month from Sony ... am I?

 

[Gone To Croatan]

I'm not the only one who makes, like, $5 a month from Sony ... am I?

I sold a book through Sony once. If you're making $5 a month there, you're doing much better than I am!

 

[CrystalVeeyant]

This short clip perfectly encapsulates what I am talking about when I talk about the dangers of censorship. Trying to excuse it under the guise of capitalism (Amazon can do what it wants) overlooks two things: hypocrisy and slippery slope. It's hypocrisy to block dubious consent books or incest titles and yet give a pass to the big sellers; that says because we are indie authors we aren't equally covered by the rules. Two, if we don't make noise and fight for our ability to be heard as authors, that ability-that RIGHT to be heard-can be eroded. Perhaps some petitions don't change a thing but is meekly lying down without even a protest an honorable thing to do? It merely emboldens those who assert that what we write IS shameful because we won't even defend it by taking 30 seconds to sign a petition.

This is one of my most favorite films because it tells the tale of a man willing to fight for his right to say what he wanted:

 

[swolf]

Ah, Larry Flint.  The man who introduced me to female genitalia.

It's cool they had him play the judge.  Thanks for posting that.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

When a company decides to remove titles from their US stores because of foreign mores and laws that has a direct impact on readers, writers and publishers. Yes, I do agree that it is a problem with their computer systems and how they distribute content, but it is also a problem with how they are handling these issues. If Kobo decided that they would remove all bibles from their stores because there was some controversy surrounding the text in a foreign country I would also be against that. And that would also unfairly impact readers who depend on Kobo to deliver content they want. However, I wouldn't mind the Bible being blocked in certain countries that prohibit the text. And I think that's a fair compromise.

There is no question people are impacted. I suspect a huge problem they face us they are not capable of identifying the characteristics of what is on their servers. The way they are handling the issue is a function of what they are capable of. I doubt they have flags set on each book that lets them know what they need to know for the current situation.

When the companies offered unrestricted access to authors, they took whatever came in. They didn't have a crew of editors going through the books and tagging them as adult, mature, family, etc. They took whatever came in the uploads and we all cheered the trampled gatekeepers.

So, following my uninformed speculation, they now have an inventory that can't be managed to meet the specific needs of the current problem. That's unfortunate, and there is plenty of brilliant analysis we can deliver in hindsight. But they are still stuck working with what they have. That's why nobody likes what they are doing.

And unfairly impacting readers? I disagree there. Kobo doesnt owe them anything. They sure don't owe me anything.

 

[Ann in Arlington]

multiple reports -- thread locked for review



after further review -- and some pruning -- we're re-opening the thread.  But it will be permanently locked at the first sign of nastiness.  We get that this is a topic a lot of people are fairly passionate about -- but courtesy is still required, thanks.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

wo, if we don't make noise and fight for our ability to be heard as authors, that ability-that RIGHT to be heard-can be eroded.

I have a right to speak, but as the years pass, I'm realizing nobody has an obligation to listen.

 

[CrystalVeeyant]

When the companies offered unrestricted access to authors, they took whatever came in. They didn't have a crew of editors going through the books and tagging them as adult, mature, family, etc. They took whatever came in the uploads and we all cheered the trampled gatekeepers.

And yet what is an author supposed to do when the "community standards" are so impossibly vague-"What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect"-they can make it up as they go along, allow individual reviewers to apply their own prejudices and tastes, and pretend to be as "shocked" as Captain Renault to discover that gambling is going on in the casino he is getting a kickback from.

I only hope that Selena Kitt can establish an imprint that allows me to pull all but my most vanilla erotica books from Amazon and the "offensive" book revenue to go elsewhere.

 

[swolf]

On a positive note, some erotica authors have received emails from KDP listing books that had been pulled in error, and they are free to resubmit them without change.

 

[gswright]

On a positive note, some erotica authors have received emails from KDP listing books that had been pulled in error, and they are free to resubmit them without change.

I received that email yesterday for two titles under my pen name. I resubmitted, and they blocked one title and let the other go through. The one blocked is for the "cover", though it is only of a face. There is some serious conflict within the approval department. :/

 

[swolf]

I received that email yesterday for two titles under my pen name. I resubmitted, and they blocked one title and let the other go through. The one blocked is for the "cover", though it is only of a face. There is some serious conflict within the approval department. :/

We'll, that sucks. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

And yet what is an author supposed to do when the "community standards" are so impossibly vague-"What we deem offensive is probably about what you would expect"-they can make it up as they go along, allow individual reviewers to apply their own prejudices and tastes, and pretend to be as "shocked" as Captain Renault to discover that gambling is going on in the casino he is getting a kickback from.

I only hope that Selena Kitt can establish an imprint that allows me to pull all but my most vanilla erotica books from Amazon and the "offensive" book revenue to go elsewhere.

I don't know what they are supposed to do. As I said earlier in a few threads, the standard will always be vague, and will never meet the objective precision that would allow anyone to look at the standards and determine if any specific book does or does not meet them. The standards will be made up as they go along, and they will change with the wind.

I expect the market will spin off sites where the subject books can be sold. I have never seen a situation where there is substantial demand and it is not met by someone.

 

[CrystalVeeyant]

I don't know what they are supposed to do.

How about not making the standard so vague it is a meaningless standard?

How about a review process where one reviewer can't act as a one-man Hayes Office, applying his own biases?

 

[CrystalVeeyant]

I expect the market will spin off sites where the subject books can be sold. I have never seen a situation where there is substantial demand and it is not met by someone.

I and many others are hoping that Selena Kitt can accomplish that. PI is not my bread and butter but it is fun to write, and it is gratifying to know I am making that niche of readers happy. Nobody who enjoys an outré kink should be forced to read hack prose to scratch their particular itch.

BTW, if anyone still hasn't signed this petition, it's still open:

[URL=http://www.change]http://www.change.org/petitions/amazon-barnes-and-noble-kobo-leave-our-self-published-and-or-indie-authors-alone[/url]

 

[polecat]

I don't write PI but do write BDSM porn. (I like to call a spade a spade) I've only had one book banned and it's rather hilarious. The book "The Ring" had been up for a while when I decided to post the Spanish translation. That one got blocked. A few days, or perhaps weeks later, someone decided that if the translation was blocked perhaps the original should be too. So they did. But the original is still up for sale at Amazon, still selling and I am still getting my royalties from it!

I then submitted the translation at B&N and they published it with no problem. Of course it is a Pyrrhic victory since no one buys anything at B&N anyway.

I am worried that the gist of much of the debate is how to disguise the content so it gets through. It really should be the other way, how to make it clear so it doesn't show up where it shouldn't. Of course most of the blame lies on Amazon. If they put up a filter like Google does so you have to opt in to see adult content, the problem would be solved and I don't think it would affect sales that much. Those looking for porn, or pot or prostitution will always find it. Funny the three things start with a P.

 

[cinisajoy]

I don't write PI but do write BDSM porn. (I like to call a spade a spade) I've only had one book banned and it's rather hilarious. The book "The Ring" had been up for a while when I decided to post the Spanish translation. That one got blocked. A few days, or perhaps weeks later, someone decided that if the translation was blocked perhaps the original should be too. So they did. But the original is still up for sale at Amazon, still selling and I am still getting my royalties from it!

I then submitted the translation at B&N and they published it with no problem. Of course it is a Pyrrhic victory since no one buys anything at B&N anyway.

I am worried that the gist of much of the debate is how to disguise the content so it gets through. It really should be the other way, how to make it clear so it doesn't show up where it shouldn't. Of course most of the blame lies on Amazon. If they put up a filter like Google does so you have to opt in to see adult content, the problem would be solved and I don't think it would affect sales that much. Those looking for porn, or pot or prostitution will always find it. Funny the three things start with a P.

Porn is easy, for prostitutes I'll go to Vegas but finding good pots is almost impossible.