[KerryT2012]

I just showed it to someone and it ihas been removed. What is going on?

 

[KMatthew]

The last two titles I published got banned as well, but they were both taboo titles. Oddly enough, I reuploaded all of my books yesterday to include a link to my new website, and none of those got banned, some of which were also taboo titles. I have quite a few titles that I could have seen getting the banhammer, but they didn't. I truly don't understand what's going on over at the Zon sometimes.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps we should return to the days of the "Plain Brown Wrapper"

The books would be titled Plain Brown Wrapper, Plain Brown Wrapper 2, Plain Brown Wrapper 3, etc.

Figure out how many pages Amazon would present in the preview. The only text on the preview pages would be "You must be an adult to read this book"

 

[Guest]

I'm here - happy to do it.

I have a contact at Amazon's "Executive Customer Service" (such as it is) I can take it to. She's actually quite receptive to new ideas - they implemented the "cover, title, blurb or content" response when we appeal the adult filter because of something I suggested to her, so there's always a possibility they MIGHT listen. Maybe.

Anyway, I'm in.

Selena if I can help in any way, let me know. But I suspect you are more than capable of making your point clear!

 

[KMatthew]

Well, 5 more of my titles just got hit with the Kindle ban . . . and the funny thing is that two of them weren't even erotica, nor did they have racy covers. Interesting.

 

[RaeC]

Well, 5 more of my titles just got hit with the Kindle ban . . . and the funny thing is that two of them weren't even erotica, nor did they have racy covers. Interesting.

What genre were they?

 

[daringnovelist]

Well, 5 more of my titles just got hit with the Kindle ban . . . and the funny thing is that two of them weren't even erotica, nor did they have racy covers. Interesting.

Could they have titles or keywords that could be misunderstood?

 

[Maya Cross]

Maybe, maybe not. A good many people are looking actively for hot stuff. A filter might actually help people find it. I'd far rather have a filter that was off by default, though. If not it would need to be very visible, which may defeat the purpose as far as parents are concerned. It's hard to figure out how to turn off Google "safe search," for example. I wouldn't like to see Amazon bury the switch somewhere-- few people would bother to turn it on in that case.

An adult filter is never going to help people find anything. It's not going to be a filter that ONLY displays adult content. If it was implemented, it would be a filter that just adds the adult content to everything else in the store, ie: the situation that currently exists. They have genres etc to help people who want to only look at erotica. So right now, everyone sees everything. If there was a filter, only some people would see everything, which means less visibility. It's not a win for anyone writing erotic romance, or anything remotely on the fence.

 

[Nihilist]

I had another book blocked today and the email came from Carlos F...again. Other writers have noticed that most of the banned book notification emails are coming from him. I'd be curious to know if the randomness is due to a handful of over-zealous reviewers. If anyone is contacting their contact at Amazon, this might be worth mentioning.

Yeah, Carlos F. and Leigh W. Are the two people who banned five titles of mine before they ever saw the light of day. I managed to get them through with more careful wording, but sales are WAY down now that I can't say they are pseudo incest, and returns are WAY up. It sucks, because people who don't want my stuff are finding it and returning with staggering rates, and (I'm assuming) people who want my stuff aren't finding me since I can't say Daddy or Brother without getting blocked.

*Sigh* Come on, Amazon, people like dirty smut. It makes money. It sells. That's okay. Just like it's okay your bottom line benefits from it, even if you don't want to admit it.

Anywho, don't mind the drunk Irish girl. Cheers.

 

[daringnovelist]

An adult filter is never going to help people find anything. It's not going to be a filter that ONLY displays adult content. If it was implemented, it would be a filter that just adds the adult content to everything else in the store, ie: the situation that currently exists. They have genres etc to help people who want to only look at erotica. So right now, everyone sees everything. If there was a filter, only some people would see everything, which means less visibility. It's not a win for anyone writing erotic romance, or anything remotely on the fence.

Yeah, I think what could help more would to be literally create an "adult dungeon" -- like a separate store where people can intentionally go browse. (And better yet would be if there is an overlap, where some milder books could be listed in both places.)

Another thing that could be done is a kind of plain brown wrapper: as long as books didn't have offensive titles, they could still come up in any search, but with truncated details (such as super-explicit covers being hidden) and an "explicit" tag which requires an extra click to get the full details.

This could potentially create a "Gypsy Rose Lee" affect. Currently people looking for something else might flinch away from erotica that shows up instead -- but if there's nothing to flinch at, curiosity clicks in.

But, no matter what happens, I think erotica writers are just going to have to get used to the fact that easy unfiltered exposure is just not going to continue. Ten years ago, on the web, you couldn't do any searching without getting porn pages. Now you can easily find it if you want it, but it won't show up if you're not looking for it. Websites can't count on accidents any more.

Camille

 

[Zenferno]

I had a couple of titles blocked just over a week ago, both by the infamous Carlos F.  I actually felt a little paranoid at first that he had it in for me, as ridiculous as that may sound.  I resubmitted one of my titles after I'd completely sanitized it - boring title, modest picture and sterile blurb - and it still didn't get through.  After that I gave up all hope of writing in the sub-genre.  Even if you could squeak a book through, you basically can't use the title, a sexy pic or blurb to promote it properly.

 

[Paranormal Piper]

Too bad readers don't seem very interested in Smashwords. PI (and everything else under the sun) is displayed loud and proud there. As it stands, I'm probably finished with PI. Easier to focus on niches that don't require this intricate dance.

 

[KMatthew]

I'm probably finished with PI. Easier to focus on niches that don't require this intricate dance.

Same. Glad I just got into it and don't have a whole bunch of PI titles like a lot of other people.

While I'm honestly not a fan of PI as a sub-genre, it does make lots of money. . . which is the only reason it surprises me that places like Amazon and All Romance Ebooks don't want it around. There's obviously a market for it and a lot of profit to be made. Besides, it's not like it's actual incest.

 

[Terrence OBrien]

The problem is that Amazon is so entrenched in its love of black boxing everything and never showing anyone how they work that they seem to be baffled--baffled, I tell you--by all these people wanting explanations and clear guidelines for their ebook service with completely open entry.

This is like if when McDonalds started driving into the coffee-to-go business, they couldn't comprehend why people might want sugar or creamer. 'zon, this is your job now. No one told you to have a wide open system, but now that you have it you actually have to, you know, tend it.

We can observe they choose to manage their system their way. They don't have to tend it another way. Its worked pretty well so far. People might want them to change, But they dont choose to obey.

 

[Lizbooks]

I can understand people being uncomfortable with their kids being able to find erotica on Amazon, but what about all the sex toys and machines? The pictures for those are pretty explicit and they can come up in random unrelated searches. Are they cracking down on those things too? Anyone know? 

 

[Honeybun]

Has anyone had any luck selling directly from their website in the various format options so that they have full control over the content and picture?  I have been out of the game for awhile--barely writing, barely publishing--but I'm trying to work on getting my schedule back in working order so that I can move forward again.  I'm trying to think of options.  It's disheartening to think that I might have to pour my preciously small amount of time into a project just to have it banned by Amazon.

 

[Michael Murray]

Has anyone had any luck selling directly from their website in the various format options so that they have full control over the content and picture? I have been out of the game for awhile--barely writing, barely publishing--but I'm trying to work on getting my schedule back in working order so that I can move forward again. I'm trying to think of options. It's disheartening to think that I might have to pour my preciously small amount of time into a project just to have it banned by Amazon.

Hmm, one thing that might work is selling (or permafreeing) some less racy works on Amazon, with links in them of the "click here to buy the books that are banned from Amazon." That way the books on Amazon act as lead ins to your wilder stuff .

 

[Honeybun]

Hmm, one thing that might work is selling (or permafreeing) some less racy works on Amazon, with links in them of the "click here to buy the books that are banned from Amazon." That way the books on Amazon act as lead ins to your wilder stuff .

I think that sounds like a good idea, Michael. The first in a series, written more tamely but setting the stage, could be put out at 99 cents or permafree with a link back to the website. And, because all the of the royalties would be ours, we could potentially sell for less. I'm really just thinking out loud... I don't see me doing the work to set such a thing up any time soon.

 

[Honeybun]

I'm feeling a little confused.  I took a look at the erotica top 100 list (for purchase) and then I took a look at the top 100 list that is set for free.  WOW!  Big difference!  The titles/covers on the for-sale list are shockingly (and disturbingly?) tame but the titles/covers on the free list are still much more racy.  They are not as hard core racy as I have seen them, but they are much more racy and more than one has a direct play on daddy stuff in the title -- very openly PI.  And, the covers are showing a lot of skin or sexy couple poses.

Anybody have any thoughts about it, the contrast between what has gotten through on the paid 100 versus what hasn't gotten banned on the free 100?

 

[daringnovelist]

I'm feeling a little confused. I took a look at the erotica top 100 list (for purchase) and then I took a look at the top 100 list that is set for free. WOW! Big difference! The titles/covers on the for-sale list are shockingly (and disturbingly?) tame but the titles/covers on the free list are still much more racy. They are not as hard core racy as I have seen them, but they are much more racy and more than one has a direct play on daddy stuff in the title -- very openly PI. And, the covers are showing a lot of skin or sexy couple poses.

Anybody have any thoughts about it, the contrast between what has gotten through on the paid 100 versus what hasn't gotten banned on the free 100?

Hmmmmmm.

My only theory is that, since Amazon changed so that the freebies don't always show next to the paid books any more, maybe the paid lists are more likely to show up in wrong searches -- and thus get more complaints? Or it might have something to do with a cluster of authors who use permafree heavily, and don't necessarily do the pseudo-taboo stuff, and therefore Amazon just hasn't gotten to them yet.

I mean, I suspect that as soon as they find a taboo subject, that author is probably flagged. (Therefore, even though all authors will probably get hit sometime, authors that don't do as much taboo are more likely to stay under the radar longer.)

This really reminds me of what happened at eHow when the company started sweeping the articles for quality. Because it was a big job, there was a lot of uneven application, but they did eventually get to everything.

Camille