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sarbonn said:
I often find these kinds of articles both enlightening and massively frustrating because for me they always leave out the one piece that I need the most, and that's how they got from completely unknown to starting to sell well. In this article, he talks about how in his first year with his one book he sold 27,222 copies of one of his books and then shows us the success from that point forward. I got the same thing when I used to read about Amanda Hockings and her successes. It was always along the lines of "get famous and then use this process to sell more books". It's like the old Steve Martin book where he tells you "How to become a millionaire and not pay taxes. First step, get a million dollars."

As one of those many struggling writers, I'd kill to sell 27,222 copies of one of my books in a year. And this isn't meant to be a complaint or even a criticis of the article because it's great information. It's just a frustration that I came away with having read a lot of articles like these that seem to hint at telling the inside story and it's still a story after the fact.
I'm afraid the truth is that most of us just don't know. We can tell you the sequence of events that took us from selling nothing to selling lots, but every sequence is unique, and it doesn't explain the fact that great books languish while some mediocre books go gangbusters.

If any of us had the secret, I can promise you this: we'd be falling over ourselves to spill it. I think we are just as curious and dumbfounded as anyone else. Except for the authors (and I'm not one of them) who chalk it up to how awesome their writing is and can't believe it took this long for the universe to bow down before their greatness. But surely those authors are rare. More common has to be the generally confused or those who post-hoc reason that what they did was the answer. But lots of people are doing those things. And if all it took was a great book, that doesn't explain the killer books I read all the time that never hit any lists.

Another theory is that it takes writing a lot of books, but THE MILL HOUSE RECLUSE and a few others did great as indie debuts. There's the theory of pricing, but then there's Joe Nobody, who sells for $9.99 and kicks butt doing it. Some say it's only the previously-trad-published who have success as indies (like Konrath, Eisler, and Bella Andre), but that argument is bunk for two reasons: Some of the previously-trad (not saying those mentioned above; I don't know) were dropped from their publishers for underperforming before doing great indie. And many indies like Hocking were straight-indie. Others like myself were with small presses that didn't provide any boost at all to our readership. No one set of answers works. Which leaves us wondering what in the world does.

I think Joe comes as close as anyone to sorting it all out. Like me, he includes luck in his secret recipe, and he qualifies that with the hard work that magnifies luck. Let's say luck, as an ingredient, accounts for 30% of the Breakout-Sauce. That's enough to explain how some authors go nuts with a single book, or expensive books, or books with crappy cover art (like mine), or books with technical faults. It would also explain how someone with a dozen excellent titles isn't taking off. How someone who does everything "right" doesn't have success.

Which leads to my point of this long-winded nonsense: Time has to be an ingredient. An important one. This revolution has barely gotten started. Good luck and bad luck require time to even them out. If you've done everything right, your works might take off in ten years. Who knows? We haven't been at this long enough. I think it's too early for any of us to say something isn't working or that it won't work. I just have to remember back to writing seven novels over three years and watching them sit between #335,204 and #1,302,490 in the Amazon store. I didn't care. I just kept writing. I read about Amanda Hocking, and I thought: "Hellz yeah!" And I kept writing. I gave myself until I was 40 and I had twenty titles published before I worried about whether I sold enough to pay a bill. And even if that never happened, it was an excuse to publish twenty titles. I could always say that. No one could take it away from me. And anyway, I'd sold a handful of books and heard from people that they loved them. I remembered when that was just an idle dream.
 
blakebooks said:
I wasn't dissing the value of $1.6 mil. I was simply trying to be accurate, or within 60% of the actual number.
And I was being a smart ass. LOL
 
Hugh Howey said:
I was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that this wasn't on your censor list.
Stop giving her ideas. ;)
 
Thank you, Hugh. That was actually a lot of good information. I think the frustration has come from the fact that so few "successful" ones actually are modest enough to point it out like you just did, yet still manage to relay a lot of good information at the same time.

I do appreciate the response.
 
For all of us struggling each month and posting our comments here, there are hundreds who've given up.  Think about it; you often hear success stories, but you don't often hear people announce they're throwing in the towel.  If you've been posting on this site all month then you're still here, you haven't given up like countless others, and that means you still have a chance.  And even 1% of a chance is better than nothing.
 
JRTomlin said:
Stop giving her ideas. ;)
:p

You're all banned.
*looks for banstick.*

Or you would be if I could find the damn thing. The cabana boys are always using it to get rid of cobwebs....

Betsy
 
Hugh Howey said:
I think Joe comes as close as anyone to sorting it all out. Like me, he includes luck in his secret recipe, and he qualifies that with the hard work that magnifies luck. Let's say luck, as an ingredient, accounts for 30% of the Breakout-Sauce. That's enough to explain how some authors go nuts with a single book, or expensive books, or books with crappy cover art (like mine), or books with technical faults. It would also explain how someone with a dozen excellent titles isn't taking off. How someone who does everything "right" doesn't have success.
There's a formula in there...somewhere. I think the components to it include ads, promotion, blog mentions, word-of-mouth, media mentions, timing, genre, cover art, blurb, sample quality, retailer algorithms, promotional opportunities, writing style, etc. Then there are all sorts of subfactors in each of those components, such as the quality of those blog mentions (for example), which complicates it even further.

Depending on the book(s), current reading trends and even local/world events could add to the mix in a negative or a positive way. The gathering of all that data (along with the crucial component of timing) and the subsequent analysis would be the difficult part. Doing it in real time in order to gauge future trends would probably involve some type of fractal analysis...a field which is still only just getting going.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
As far as I can figure out, the components to success are:

Book Quality
Eye-Catching Cover
Interesting Product Summary
Popular Genre
Publicity/Marketing
More Books

Rinse and repeat. It's a marriage of quality plus quantity plus publicity. At least, that's all you can control. After that, it's just... a dollop of magic, a pinch of hope and a vial of dragon's blood.  :)
 
I forget who said it, but someone once said something like "I have noticed it is the people who work hard that get lucky" or something like that. I think there is probably a lot more elbow grease in this then real chance.
 
Hugh Howey said:
I was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that this wasn't on your censor list.
Hugh likes to push the boundries 8)

Also, Joe is a pioneer in this business. He says what he thinks and has always been transparent with his numbers and sales. As are most of the self-published authors I've met over the last couple of years. I think if you look on the KB list of books sold at the top sellers, you'll find that the writing, the pace, the next book etc. is what has made the success. It's not special marketing tips and techniques. It's always going to be writing the next book and getting it out.
 
Greg Strandberg said:
For all of us struggling each month and posting our comments here, there are hundreds who've given up. Think about it; you often hear success stories, but you don't often hear people announce they're throwing in the towel. If you've been posting on this site all month then you're still here, you haven't given up like countless others, and that means you still have a chance. And even 1% of a chance is better than nothing.
Man, this is so true. I first started hanging out here in early 2011, right after Amanda Hocking made it big. there aren't a lot of regulars from those days who are still around. ('Course some of those people are still writing but not hanging here. And they're doing well.) There are a lot of people--people with four or five titles even--who never got traction and just threw in the towel. And there are also people who were selling gangbusters back then who hit a snag, lost sales, and have slowly faded into obscurity. Sometimes I think about them and go look them up on Amazon and see that they haven't put anything out in a year and a half. I wonder what happened to them. :(

Never give up. Never surrender. Never tell me the odds. :p
 
Sophrosyne said:
As far as I can figure out, the components to success are:

Book Quality
Eye-Catching Cover
Interesting Product Summary
Popular Genre
Publicity/Marketing
More Books

Rinse and repeat. It's a marriage of quality plus quantity plus publicity. At least, that's all you can control.
I agree...to some extent. But some of those factors can have a high degree of latitude built into them. For example, I've seen several traditionally published non-fiction books as of late with some pretty uncreative covers. I can see where they would sell well if marketed to the right audience...and in some cases there is already a built-in audience because the author has a massive platform in other media. I suppose one could say a lot of ready-made (hard earned?) trust has been built up ahead of time.

Likewise, someone can write a book in not-so-popular genre, and, if done right, the book can be a breakout hit. In rare cases, it can create a subgenre of it's own. But in order to do that, the writing usually has to be top-notch, and I would think publicity plays a role, too.

Yet I've also seen examples where a book met all of the important criteria you've mentioned above...but the market was oversaturated (which is why I mentioned timing above). Certain fiction topics/trends seem to come and go in waves and I think there is a bit of an art in recognizing those waves.

All that said, I think a bigger gamechanger is being a bit "out of the box" when it comes to the components you've mentioned above. I could go on, but I don't want to take this thread too far off topic.
 
I honestly believe much of it comes down to luck. You can write a good book, and have barely any sales, if any. Likewise, you can have a bad book and sell. So, I really do think it comes down to the roll of the dice. Putting out a bigger backlist, having good covers etc. just increases the chance that luck will find you.

As an aside, when it comes to covers, I don't want to come out and claim that everyone's wrong when it comes to saying that covers are important. I don't believe that for one minute anyway, but I do want to say that I don't think they're as important as people make out at times. Why? Because I have no explanation for a book with a simple colored background and black text on it (the author's name and book title) selling. Anyone could do that in two minutes. Granted, it is likely an exception to the rule, but it's still worth examining.
 
Joe's blog was one of the first things I found when I was researching news about publishing, and I was impressed with his success, so I always listen to what he says. May not always agree with him, but I listen. Same thing with DWS.

Book Quality
Eye-Catching Cover
Interesting Product Summary
Popular Genre
Publicity/Marketing
More Books
I'd add luck, and I think it's closer to 50% of the mix. And timing: being closer to the crest of a trend -- or rising with it -- is better than hitting it on the downside.
 
Hugh Howey said:
www.salon.com
? The link didn't bring me to any stories about authors giving up.

Anyway, I think people forget sometimes that the power of word of mouth is amazing. You and Amanda wrote wonderful books that struck a chord with those who read them. Then they told two people, and they told two people...etc. :) I think word of mouth is more powerful than any other kind or promotion.

There's my 2 cents for the week.
 
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